Talk:John Ebert
From Minnewiki
I'd like to initiate a discussion about this page and the editing that needs to happen.
Please review Tips for writing a good article. Especially this rule of thumb:
- Keep the basics in mind (who, what, when, where) and present it in an easily understood order. Avoid bias - seek the neutral voice. This is about information, not a sales pitch or criticism. (Emphasis mine.)
Anyone else have thoughts? Truetone
Page contents |
Good point
Hi, I'm Julia from MPR. Without a doubt this is an entertaining read, but the point made is a good one.
This page would benefit from the People article template and some reconstruction at the basic level
As MPR's Interactive Producer I'd like to see this story shared as written elsewhere - whether as a published article in our online groups or submitted as a first person history. Julia Schrenkler
Where to Begin?
I'm certainly willing to do some editing as I have time. However, it appears that Snowflakebeach has put a lot of time and effort into writing the page and it seems to be updated almost daily.
Has the Minnewiki created flags like Wikipedia has, such as "This post needs editing for point of view," or something like that? My concerns are:
- Destroying the author's work - even though it belongs in a personal web page or blog more than here.
- Giving the author the impression that the editing was malicious since they don't seem familiar with the "Wiki" writing style
Other than that, it's just a matter of taking the time of trying to boil these anecdotes down to their facts.
--Truetone 09:05, 15 Mar 2007 (CDT)
My response:
Hi, I'm the author of this original author of this wiki and am re-structuring it, however... Those aspects that are directly related to the band This Oneness have now been cut and linked over to that wiki. The general musical/people/life aspects that are the music history and peripheral culture of the times fit in the People section as I have them, although you may disagree. Music history is not only the "factual" music sound-bites but the events and times that made those facts possible. To overlook them because they are not "facts" would be a gross over-sight. Please do not take it upon yourselves to carry out this re-organization without my agreement. I will put in reorganization efforts over time and cannot just do a slash/burn approach on it for sake of the stories. I care very much about "my" story being related in the context it warrants. Some aspects of "clinical reporting" emphasized here ("boil these anecdotes down to their facts") run counter to the reality of the music and culture of the times. Life is not a dry analysis and will be treated with the authenticity it deserves when it comes to the "People" music history section. If that is not suitable here for MPR, then you do not see "history" as I do. Julia Schrenkler, if you have an alternative communicate your ideas to snowflakebeach@yahoo.com. Or give me notice of your dissatisfaction and I will be happy to remove the entire John Ebert wiki, find it a new home, and expect a 100% complete wipe of the contents of my People history archives from Minnewiki. Regarding the band wiki, I have cut it to more reportage style. Send me an email with your concerns to snowflakebeach@yahoo.com (Snowflakebeach, March 19th, 2007)
- I agree with Julia that this should be a published article in one of MPR's online groups or a personal blog somewhere else. Either that or some serious editing down to basic facts per Truetone. I also quote the author, Please do not take it upon yourselves to carry out this re-organization without my agreement. but the fact remains on these encyclopedic wikis that anyone can edit anything at anytime. Cricket 13:21, 21 Mar 2007 (CDT)
Thanks
Hi John,
Your response is precisely why I initiated a discussion here before making any changes. I would prefer that you make the edits as you have time.
The general musical/people/life aspects that are the music history and peripheral culture of the times fit in the People section as I have them, although you may disagree.
I don't disagree with you about this. However, when writing for a wiki, this editorial style of writing is inappropriate. It's not bad to try to put things into context, or even to have a point of view. You just shouldn't write with a point of view here. This is meant to act as a kind of encyclopedia about Minnesota music.
You've obviously made some important contributions and no one is asking that you delete that from here. We're just asking that you write in a style that is as free from point of view as possible. That's why I linked to the article about writing for this wiki.
Please be aware that this is a community. I for one would like to see your story included, but just written in a different voice with a little less editorial content. All entries in the wiki are subject to review by the community and can be edited by anyone if they see something they feel is inaccurate.
Having said that, I think everyone would prefer that you are part of that process and that the article ends up representing you in a way that you also feel is accurate. (You, are obviously part of this community too.)
I do feel it's appropriate to discuss this issue here so the community as a whole can participate. I hope you're not offended. That is not my intent. My intent is to engage in a dialog. That's why I started this talk page before touching a single word in your article.
--Truetone 10:18, 22 Mar 2007 (CDT)
My Response 2
Hi Truetone. The "point of view" style of writing is probably the most difficult for me to sort out of such a personal story but I have been working on it. A quick glance at the backstage story about The Bear strikes me (IMHO) as fitting the reportage style, and does not have "point of view", it pretty much describes what happened. I need to know how others see that segment as representative of style as a beginning point for me to try and make good edits. I have gone ahead and made a lot of "editorial" edits already (haha) and welcome a second review if you care to. Many of the edits really only required changing the word to one less loaded with secondary imagery, restructuring some sentences, or small deletions. I still need review opinions however.
Also, are .mp3 snips and clips hosted here or external to the wiki? I think external is probably better. Snowflakebeach 10:05pm, 22 Mar 2007 (CDT)
- I looked very briefly today and the style is much closer to the "wiki" style of writing than it was previously. Thank you for taking the criticism so well. This page is on my "Watch List", and I check in frequently, so I'll gladly review the article from time to time. I may go in do do just a few edits for style, but not content. For instance, "John was active in the Minnesota music scene in the 1960s and early 1970s. John also worked in sound..." might be edited to, "John Ebert was active in the Minnesota music scene in the 1960s and early 1970s. He also worked..." Things like that that improve the article stylistically, but don't change the meat of the article are fairly easy. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't mind if I made some edits along those lines.
- --Truetone 12:04, 23 Mar 2007 (CDT)
- John, consider eliminating this paragraph:
This Minnewiki is an excursion into some of the odds and ends of my life, with a focus on snips and bits of events that set the social stage of music history during the 1960s as the back-beat of the story. If you want to drill down to my core band work as a sound engineer and road-man, click this link to This Oneness.
- IMHO is seems an unnecessary explanation. At the very least it should be re-written in the third person.
- --Truetone 14:56, 23 Mar 2007 (CDT)
- This paragraph is a good place to start when thinking of the Neutral Point of View (NPOV):
John Ebert was born in 1951 and recently decided to return to college for awhile where he is pursuing long delayed formal studies as a guitar student in 2007 with his "vintage" 2000 Inbanez Artwood 100CE Acoustic Electric.
- Where were you born? If not in Minneapolis, when did you move to the Twin Cities? How did you get into sound engineering? Where did you train and when? With who? For who have you run sound and when? There's a big gap between 1951 and 2007 here. My suggestion would be to give a synopsis of how you got started, who you've worked with and when. Then elaborate later in the page.
- --Truetone 15:04, 23 Mar 2007 (CDT)
My Response 3
I think things are improving well enough, I hope what I report is relevant at Minnewiki. I am making edits as I go, trying to fit the mould and recall the dates and names is the hardest. Your suggestions are helpful. Snowflakebeach 4:52AM, 24 Mar 2007 (CDT)
John, Gregg Inhofer wants to talk to you e-mail me at *****@***.com (address modified to conserve personal privacy rights of owner, Snowflakebeach 1:00 PM, Apr 11, 2007 (CDT) )
Thanks for the help, I managed to reach him March 31st with your help. Snowflakebeach 2:00 PM, Apr 01, 2007 (CDT)
